CCPs motivation was to bring more ppl to 0.0. Making it easy to get stuff there should accomplish that, they thought. Well, all they got was 0.0 folk saying "oh, look, we don't need that many ppl now, lets do all the logistics with fewer ppl = more money for us".

Is it CCP's job to make more "PVP opportunities" for you? Or is it their job to balance their game over the broad spectrum of playstyles that occur within it or might occur within it?

So we can justify crap game mechanics purely on ship/module demand? Because that's all I'm hearing from this discussion.

You do see the obvious retort? If 0.0 didn't have the instant ability to restock from high sec with little to no limiting factors for volume of supplies nor risk in transit, there wouldn't be the turnover of ships going boom that there is.

...now that's no answer though. We don't want to inhibit pvp because of crap logistical gameplay either... so there is a middle ground.

There is an argument to be made for increasing manufacturing capabilities (among soooo many other support logistics) for 0.0 stations. They should be able to be self sufficient if they want to choose that option. But CCP has a track record of ignoring things like this in 0.0....

How about the argument that no one says you should be able to support a 5000 man 0.0 alliance out of just a couple stations? Where is this a written right and intended consequence? Are there not hundreds of arguments to make against eternal escalation?

IMO, it's just too easy to blink all over the universe into whatever spot you want to place either one freighter or every damned ship in an alliance.

Too easy to move assets.
Too easy to project power.

OP is 100% right, they have basically removed the ability to disrupt supply lines because the only option now is to either pray for one mistake or attack the entire infrastructure those supplies are constantly supporting.

I played this entire last decade.
I lived in multiple different regions of 0.0 before jump bridges (hell, before capital ships period).

I've watched my side's freighters burn in move ops, I've had my own assets lost simply in transit. It was a nightmare, nerve racking, unfair... IT WAS EVE ONLINE. Our enemies had the save vulnerabilities, we were all on equal footing.

We've long heard complaints about the structure grind in 0.0. About how much of a pain war itself is...
do you not think this might be because there are **** mechanics making structure grind your only option? Perhaps there should other fronts to attack on (which there are, but not enough)... another vulnerability?

I think there should be many vulnerabilities.
And I think there is no question if they went too far with the system we have today.

So, if I'm so smart and right, why haven't CCP acknowledged it and brought some much needed Achilles heels to the massive MASSIVE entities?
Ones that should otherwise either be more independent in 0.0 for supplies or at least be vulnerable somewhere in the process of them moving supplies for 1,000 armies from Jita to the edge of known space.

My guess is the obvious, that they decided that they had made their bed by putting the entire 0.0 endgame into sov and structure grind and never bothered to realize that what they made 0.0 into... the very root of the concept, was incredibly flawed and poorly implemented.

It was laziness to fix the system at hand and it was eagerness to put out new shiny ships and abilities with little regard to the impact of the game in the long run. So, ~18 months, basically.

And I say that as a person that lived it. Plenty before and plenty after.
It was better before.
It was harder and more competitive and more risky, more HTFU, just as this game is supposed to be.

Sure, upgrade the outposts - there is no good reason not to. But don't claim that null can't support itself when what you mean is that it actually can but nullsec players are just a little too lazy to deal with CCP's horrible POS mechanics. And let's face it, your points 2 and 3 are not very compelling. The risk is absolutely minimal unless you throw POSes up on the front lines of a conflict and the cost is entirely trivial if a POS is being used efficiently at its full capacity.

Risk?! Theft?! In my eve? Surely not!




I agree with all of that. It does make more sense to manufacture in highsec with the current system.

Which brings us to ...




I'm not sure this is entirely representative (didn't POSes used to be far less useful at that time?) but even if it is it just goes to show that null does not rely on easy logistics to highsec.

Basically, my point is that if null can already be self-sufficient, and it can, it doesn't need the highsec link. It just wants it because it makes life easier. And if people will still ship stuff to null (which I suspect they wouldn't if compression was removed along with an easy pipeline) without easy logistics then great - danger, conflict and player interaction will abound.

Holy **** ***** **** **** son of a God ****! That is an actual quote. Talk about playing fast and loose with the facts.

Low end minerals come from low end ores. Low end ores are far more abundant in low and null sec than they are in high sec. If you mine the low end ores and refine them, they will become low end minerals. If you need further explanation of this game mechanic, there is a nice lady named Aura who you can talk to. She can direct you to some mining tutorials that will explain it all in greater detail.

What the ******* **** suck ***** hallelujah are you talking about? OMFG

Ok, so, then, where do you think low end minerals come from? If not the belts (rat loot, also).



So, what Malcanis should have said, what would have been TRUTHFUL, is not that low end minerals are scarcer in null. They are far, far more abundant in null. What he should have said, what would not have been a lie, is that high end minerals are far, far more, stupidly, incredibly, stupefyingly, outrageously more abundant in null, and that the disparity in potential output of low end minerals of high sec versus null sec pales in comparison to the disparity in potential output of high end minerals of high sec versus null sec. So, it is not that Bob Highsec has more cats than Jim Nullsec. It is that Jim Nullsec has a thousand times more dogs than Bob Highsec, and is upset that he only has 100 times more cats than Bob Highsec.

Thanks for clarifying.